An ongoing argument (was: ligal.so.7)

From: Alessandro Baretta (alex@baretta.com)
Date: Fri May 10 2002 - 20:25:43 EDT

  • Next message: Jim Hettmer: "Re: An ongoing argument (was: ligal.so.7)"

    Dom Lachowicz wrote:
    >
    > Alessandro,
    >
    > I've read your repeated requests, and I've already
    alerted those
    > responsible for those sections of code to your problem.
    This "just
    > works" for me, so I'm unable to reproduce your problem.

    I realize this might a problem with the specific
    configuration of my machine. The trouble is I do not know
    where to put my hands to try and fix it.

    > However, please note that no-one is responsible for
    responding to any
    > email, request, or bug notice. The fact that anyone
    responds to any
    > requests should be taken with gratitude, especially
    because we do
    > respond to the overwhelming majority of them in a
    positive manner. We
    > try to help out where we can, but we can't always help
    out, nor do we
    > always want to.

    I do not take you as responsible for any malfunctioning of
    Abiword, especially when it comes to functionality that is
    probably rather delicate and depends on external libraries.
    Do believe, Mr. Lachowicz, that I take with deep gratitude
    and appreciation all efforts to develop and support free
    software in general and Abiword in particular. I also ask
    you to believe that I have a positive attitude, whereby I
    usually try to help users of free software by sharing my
    understanding (and sometimes my misunderstandings) with
    other users. I do not take time to dive into the code of a
    program, but I usually do take what time I can to answer
    those questions that are at my level of understanding on the
    mailing lists of my favorite free software projects. I would
    be glad to lend a hand here, on the Abiword users' list, but
    until recently I had no need for a full-featured word
    processor--I use emacs most of the time--so I have only a
    limited understanding of Abiword. Now, I am called
    upon by a friend wishing to use a word processor in Arabic;
    for this reason, I have taken interest in Abiword and have
    gotten into the habit of reading this mailing list, and
    sometimes of sharing my thoughts with the developers as well
    as the other users.

    > Try not to take things so personally. If you have a
    > problem, file a bug in bugzilla that way it's sure to get
    our attention
    > and will not forgotten. I suggest that you read
    > http://www.abisource.com/support/expectations.phtml as it
    addresses my
    > feelings on this subject quite well (perhaps because I
    authored it, in
    > part).

    I must guarantee you that I read that document, and that I
    have mixed feelings about it. Although my experience in the
    free world of GNU/Linux systems is relatively short, I have
    come to expect more from free software projects than I ever
    did from commercial software developers. I have come to
    expect an added value that I doubt could ever be found with
    commercial products: democracy. Let me add that I am not
    offended with you for the answers you gave Mr. Thompson and
    myself: neither have I taken personally. I simply wish to
    remind the community, and the developers in particular, that
    for free software to thrive, we all must maintain as
    positive an attitude as we can. This includes responding
    tactfully to other peoples requests, even if they might
    redundant or banal.

    As far as the "bug" concerning the right-to-left feature, I
    have never thought about mentioning it on bugzilla, because
    I was not and am not convinced that there is a bug in the
    Abiword source. I believe there must be a "buggy"
    interaction between Abiword and some components of my
    distribution, which I will have a hard time identifying
    without the help of other users, expert with the
    right-to-left feature, or of the developers.

    > As for my response to David, I might remind you of the
    adage that one
    > "catches more flies with honey than with vinegar." His
    lack of tact
    > (which is phrasing it litely, and I've instead
    interpreted it as a
    > general beratement of the developer community) was
    unacceptable. My
    > responses did have merit (and, contrary to your belief,
    was not a waste
    > of time) because:
    >
    > 1) It proposed multiple working solutions to his said
    "problem"
    > 2) It let me get out frustration to his tactless email.
    You cannot
    > underestimate or overlook the value theraputic responses.

    Hmmm... I am no psychotherapist, but I doubt that by flaming
    one user, whether justly or not, you will obtain any
    significant personal benefit. In my opinion, flaming only
    engenders personal antipathy between the parts. It is not in
    the interest of the Abiword project or of any other free
    software project to stimulate distaste for it in the community.

    > The fact that David blamed *us* for his having a hard
    time finding
    > libgal is a problem that needed addressing, which is
    further annoying
    > because it was hiding right underneath his nose.

    Mr. Thompson expressed his feelings about the "ease of
    installation", or rather the lack thereof. It is an explicit
    right of the development team to chose whether to address
    the "ease of installation" issue or not. The Perl community,
    for examply, greatly encourages personal recompilation of
    the sources, the motto being, "Use The Source". Therefore,
    if one of the foremost free software projects chooses to
    provide no binary distributions, you are certainly free to
    provide minimal ditributions, which, as you stated, are
    guaranteed to work only the machine of the builder. Yet,
    your freedom to delegate the responsibility of providing
    builds for the community to install and use directly, does
    not conflict with Mr. Thompsons liberty to express his
    feelings about the Abisource builds' ease of installation or
    lack thereof. Let me also state that rpmfind is also partly
    responsible for the installation difficulties: I, too, have
    had some trouble finding packages needed by Abiword, but a
    little patience did solve my problem.

    > I do not regret drawing out this discussion, because it
    is something
    > that needs to be addressed. If it takes more time for
    some people to
    > understand certain things than others, so be it. If you
    don't like it,
    > .killfile me or simply ignore this thread. I won't be any
    worse off
    > because of it and your demeanor may improve substantially.

    I am sorry that you take my mailings as a personal crusade
    against you, Mr. Lachowicz. I have no intention to killfile
    you. As I already mentioned, the main benefit of free
    software over commercial software is the intrinsically
    democratic nature of the community where the former is
    developed and used. Democracy is a societal condition
    whereby all members of a group have a right to express their
    opinion, with due respect, and have a duty to listen to
    others' opinions, again with due respect. Your comment on my
    demeanor is certainly in contrast with such requirements of
    democracy. I have addressed you and the Abiword community
    with a pacifying intent and have obtained a yield of spite.
    I am very much disappointed.

    Why in the world did you take up such a noble and generous
    quest as that to provide the computing community with a free
    word processor, if you are unable to carry out a peaceful
    and respectful discussion with your users? By distribution
    free software on the internet you expose yourself to
    communication from millions of different people, each with
    his or her set of needs. You definitely seem unprepared to
    cope with communication from the casual user with a casual
    problem. The page you mentioned having coauthored
    (http://www.abisource.com/support/expectations.phtml) makes
    it evident that you do not wish to be bugged by the
    community. If this is the case, then why do participate in
    the discussions on the users' mailing list? You can very
    well deal with code only and never know anything about the
    users. But, if you chose to act as a maintainer for Abiword,
    then implicitly you are responsible for communicating with
    your users, as well as for maintaining a moderate tone in
    your postings. No one benefits from flames. Now grow up and
    learn this.

    Alex Baretta

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